"Conversation" on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BERKSBIRDS/messages

Photos on www.berksbirds.co.uk

Any comments? I've got an opinion but am keen to hear others.

Marek

I'm going to stick my neck out and say that this is probably a Ring-

necked Duck (or possibly hybrid thereof ....). I don't think it is the

usual Pochard x Tuftie mix.

Regards, Paul.

the bill looks too long to me and more pochard than ring necked/tuftie,

but I know diddly squat about rarities - unless of course it is a

spoonbill standing amongst a flock of canada geese, or miniature

skylark in Spain going ZIT ZIT ZIT ZIT ZIT ZIT then I stand a fair

chance - where is CH when you need him?

I have to say that when I first saw this bird it didn't strike me as

much as the bird I found at Theale in 2001.

I could well be over cautious but...

1. It's a very rich brown colour.

2. The flanks aren't as pale as I would expect.

3. Can they have such white undertail coverts? (wouldn't be surprised

if this varies as much as it does in Tufted Duck)

4. Jerry's photo on the bird flapping seems to show a sandy brown wing

bar (not grey).

The somewhat indistinct facial markings and bill pattern surely

discount an adult female so therefore presumably it's a first-winter?

I've read that first-winter drakes would be pretty much adult-like by

now but what about females? The 2001 bird left on 20th Jan 2002 by

which time the bill pattern was much more distinct than when it

arrived in November and more distinct than this bird.

I don't think there's much wrong with the bill shape. The head shape

looks good and the bill pattern seems OK for a 1w bird so maybe all

this is individual variation, or maybe not?

A picture of the Moor Green female is at

http://mglg.org.uk/Monthly_bird_reports.htm  and scroll down to the November

2006 report.

This supports Marek's first 2 points well.

> A picture of the Moor Green female is at

> This supports Marek's first 2 points well.

>   1. It's a very rich brown colour.

>   2. The flanks aren't as pale as I would expect

Neither Marek's nor my pics really show the birds plumage very well.

The light was low and the bird distant!

It is still there (together with the escaped fudge of last year) and

if you can, have a look at it.

The pic on: http://mglg.org.uk/Monthly_bird_reports.htm was taken in

good sunlight and is quite contrasty and judging from the "lightness"

of the eye itself the image has been lightened (and sharpened?)

  OK, I know it's just a duck, but this is Berkshire so surely somebody

has been to have a look?

Can anybody say exactly why they think it is or isn't a hybrid,

especially in relation to the points I made in my last email?

Chris, I assume you're not around at the moment but I'd welcome your

opinion when you return.

Hi Marek,

Just seen the photos on berksbirds. I think this is a female Ring-necked Duck. I

can't see any obvious hybrid influence although this can be difficult from

photos. The bill pattern looks good - a dipped in ink tip with a pale sub

terminal band. I think that the band is a little variable and paler in spring in

adult female; certainly I would think it looks ok. The bill and head shape also

look ok,  as does the face pattern. The colouration is quite rich, but this

might be an effect from your photos (strong sunlight). In Jerry's photos it

looks colder-toned. I can also see nothing amiss with the spread wing shot once

the lighting is taken into account...

Is it still about?...

Cheers

Mike

Hi Mike

I totally agree with you. Looks standard to me. Not been able to raise CDRH

nor Marek on the phone to discuss it so curious to know why it is considered to

be a hybrid

Very best wishes

Lee G R Evans

Hi Jerry

Sorry, been extremely busy of late and rarely at my desk (working not

birding). The bird depicted in the images is a female RING-NECKED DUCK in my

opinion.

I have not been able to raise CDRH since I have seen these images so am

unsure whether he has anything to do with its identification or not. He is

extremely well versed on hybrid Aythyas and if he believes it to be a hybrid

then I

would have to listen to his criteria before making any further decision and

furthermore, I can only comment on the images and not the bird itself as I have

not seen it

Lee G R Evans

Sorry y'all, not looked at my computer for several days.

I saw the RN Duck on Slough SF yesterday afternoon and it looks OK to

me. Nothing wrong with the structure, wing-bar etc.

But, proving that you can never be too careful, the accompanying

Ferruginous Duck has more-or-less perfect drake plumage but the bill

clearly has too much black at the tip… I'd previously excused this as

possibly a first winter feature but by now it HAS to be fully adult –

so it must be a sign of genetic impurity (always more likely in

captive stock due to the very small pool of potential mates).

Chris Heard

> I saw the RN Duck on Slough SF yesterday afternoon and it looks OK to

> me. Nothing wrong with the structure, wing-bar etc.

Well, I take it back then. A case of being overly cautious. I blame it

on the evening sun. It really did look very rich brown, especially on

the flanks.

Thanks for the comments and sorry Jerry for dissin' your bird!